TwoKinds


URL: twokinds.keenspot.com
Creator/s: Tom Fischbach
Run: 10/03-current
Schedule: W/Sa
Section/s: Ch. 15, "Haunted"

Website: The site's great, as it's a simple design but also fully featured. There are 10 character images spread around the site, which makes it colorful and unique, and gives it something of a personality. It's a lot more likable and interesting than a generic, blank background, anyways. The comic also has its own forum and chat room, and it's certainly unusual for a webcomic to get popular enough to generate its own community to this extent.

Writing: A few reviews I've seen have focused on comparing the comic's various species, but I'm not as interested in that. Instead, I'll cut to the chase: TwoKinds is a furry porn comic, and its appeal hinges on how interested readers are in its sexual aspects.

TwoKinds is one of the most popular furry webcomics, consistently coming in at No. 1 on Keenspot, TopWebComics, and The Belfry, and this success seems highly related to the attention the comic simultaneously gives to several niche audiences. For example, the creator manages to cater to the bestiality, pedophilia, and transgender fetishes all at the same time with Natani, a 13-year-old transgendered furry who's shown topless in two separate scenes in the chapter (1, 2, both links NSFW). There are multiple transgendered characters, and even a character who changes her species, and, when reading this stuff, it feels like the creator's just randomly throwing these features into the comic in order to include as many unusual fantasies as possible.

There are a few methods the creator employs to try to make his fetish porn comic seem more palatable. The first is that even though nudity's common in this comic, the creator never draws nipples or vaginas, which, I guess, is supposed to make it seem less like softcore porn. What happens, though, is because it isn't "porn," it gives the creator the excuse to draw lots and lots of nudity. Reviewer The Luigiian writes, “I have never seen a single furry comic with this much sex in it. This literally has more sex, more nudity, more sex scenes, more suggestive dialogue, and more transgender/transspecies/anthropomorphic bestiality porn than any other non-pornographic furry comic I have ever seen." What personally stood out for me is this page (NSFW), as the creator somehow manages to fit nudity and sex into a Christmas comic.

The second method's that even though his sexy furry women all look like children and range from 10-to-13 years old, the creator tries to hand-wave the creepy child porn aspect by vaguely alluding to it not being their "real" age. This age thing seems like a gimmick to me, though, because even though the comic's main focus is on showing sexy images of these furries, the "real age" thing's barely brought up. Going through the whole website, as well as the comic's wiki, I wasn't able to find any indication of what these characters' "real age" is supposed to be, and going as far as to Google "what are keidrans real age" brings up several multi-page forum threads full of fans debating their various theories. Some readers might not have a problem with the ambiguity, but I think when you're dealing with an extremely sensitive and taboo subject like child porn, it's worth being a little more specific about it. It's at least sort of ironic that the characters in the comic are outraged by someone drawing child porn while the comic's creator seems indifferent towards his own sexy drawings of childish characters.

The third method's highlighting a sense of racial prejudice towards the furries, which gives the impression that people who disapprove of human-furry relationships (i.e., bestiality) are similar to racists. I expect that this approach is pretty appealing to the fetishists who read the comic, as instead of treating their sexual deviance as something to be ashamed of, it portrays them as victims. It gets pretty weird, though, when sex slavery's involved, as that sort of thing doesn't work as well when the point of the comic's to portray furries in a sexy way. Sort of like what DrShaym wrote in his review of Devil's Shine, the creator's thought process seems to be, "I know! Let's have her get raped! It's both tragic and sexy! Genius!" The creator also offers Trace and Flora as a sort of ideal couple, which is another way to present bestiality as being socially acceptable; however, having Trace get Flora pregnant just comes off as creepy, and it doesn't make sense anyways since they're different species. I see how their relationship could be very appealing to some people, though, as Flora's basically the "sugoi kawaii nekomimi catgirl" from anime, as reviewer Cody Baier puts it, while Trace, in his black T-shirt and khaki shorts, looks like a character out of a gaming webcomic, and it'd be easy for a male fan to imagine himself in Trace's place.

As far as the bits of story sandwiched in-between the fetish scenes go, they don't seem particularly important or inspired, as if the creator's in a rush to get back to drawing sexy stuff. However, thanks to the About and Cast pages, I was able to understand what was going on and keep track of who's who, which is somewhat impressive considering that the comic has hundreds of pages and a lot of characters.

Art: It's pretty good, and the creator's improved a ton in the nine years he's been drawing the comic. He's especially capable at drawing sexy furry women, which he's obviously had a lot of practice doing, and his DeviantArt site has some particularly erotic stuff. The art has a few flaws, such as an overreliance on close shots and a lack of expressiveness, but it's generally of a high quality, and I can't really expect much more from a twice-a-week manga webcomic. I also really like the cover, which is actually an animated GIF that changes after about 10 seconds.

The main issue I have with the artwork's similar to what I complained about in my review of Bittersweet Candy Bowl, which is that, while the writing deals with dark, adult, and possibly creepy stuff, the characters look like cutesy preteens. All of them have big heads, huge eyes, and childish physiques, and I'd guess that they're about 11 or 12 years old if the Cast page didn't list their actual ages. This plays out especially awkwardly in the scene with 13-year-old Maddie being sexualized, as, since the adult characters look like 13-year-olds, the creator has no choice but to make Maddie look like she's about 6 years old in order to make her seem like a younger character. Then you have stuff like this 13-year-old getting groped, and while it's supposed to be something funny happening between two adults, having it happen with these childish-looking furries is kinda off-putting. And a similar situation comes up when 10-year-old Kathrin, a former sex slave, screams at 13-year-old Natani to show herself naked, which is just weird.

Overall: I understand that there's a big demand on the Internet for furry porn, and I don't think I'm as judgmental about it as some other reviewers are. What ruins TwoKinds for me, though, is that the creator tries to cram so much different fetish material into one story that he's created a total mess out of what could've been a pretty neat concept. Bestiality's one thing, but when you're combining bestiality, pedophilia, transgenderism, nudity, and sex slavery in a single page, you're just taking things too far, and any appeal the comic might have seems insignificant compared to how disturbing it can be at times. People are inevitably gonna read something like TwoKinds as a sort of guilty pleasure, but it shouldn't be regarded as a serious artistic work.

2/5

82 comments :

  1. I wouldn't call TwoKinds porn, because while it desperately tries (and fails) to be erotic, and this is no doubt a big reason for its success, it isn't sexually explicit (or "pornographic", if you will).

    I'm also not sure that it's fair to call it pedophilic? Whatever the characters' ages are, it's clear that most of them are actually adults. (Then again, maybe I've just seen too much anime to be as offended as I should be about the generic big-eyes-small-mouth look everyone sports). As far as I can tell, the characters that are actually supposed to be minors aren't sexualized.

    Not that I'm trying to defend this comic. Good heavens no. It's bland, sexually immature, and really wants to be a generic anime. I just think it's more incompetent than BURN IT WITH FIRE offensive.

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    1. Whether or not it's technically porn, reading this webcomic feels like reading porn. Most of the section revolves around Natani not having clothes, and it seems like an issue that would be insignificant if it didn't give Fischbach the opportunity to repeatedly show her nude.

      As for the child porn, while the furries are technically adults according to the webcomic's canon, they both look and act like children, and, as a reader, I couldn't help but be bothered by seeing childish characters sexualized in this manner. I also think that Fischbach deliberately presents the characters this way, and that it isn't an accidental by-product of the manga style.

      I've read other reviews that treated TwoKinds as "BURN IT WITH FIRE offensive," and my goal was just to try to understand why TwoKinds was so appealing to a lot of people. Fischbach figured out how to make a webcomic that's highly sexual, but, at the same time, just barely mainstream enough to appeal to a large audience. It's easy to say that the webcomic sucks, but I hope that I was little more in-depth than that and was able to add something new to the discussion.

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    2. I stumbled on this website, and wanted to comment. I have been reading TwoKinds for quite some time, and while it has its flaws (mostly that the storytelling is quite clichéd), I can't quite see most of the points you are making.

      Before going to details though, there is one thing I really must point out. Natani, in the webcomic, is a transgendered man. As a transgendered person myself, I would be grateful if you would show the presence of mind to call him a he, not a she.

      Well then, to the comic. I have never read the comic as a sexual material (maybe because I'm not into furries), just as a normal comic with some sexual situations within normal boundaries. In a way I feel they bring the story some integrity without being needlessly over emphasized. As it is, I always took the furries, who act and think almost 95 % like humans, to be a symbol for racial differences, not actual animals.

      Also I have never seen the characters as children, but I have watched anime quite a lot back in the day, so I guess my point of view is quite different from yours.

      To be honest, I first thought that your review was a joke, and it took me a while to realize that you were actually serious. There is no need for you to like this comic, but I hope you realize that a lot of people actually reading it are seeing something completely different from what you apparently saw. I guess any work of art is always created as a duet between the writer and the reader, with each reader briging his or her own preconceptions in.

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    3. I referred to Natani as a girl because the creator lists the character as "female" on the comic's website. ( http://twokinds.keenspot.com/?pageid=4 )

      As for the furries merely being "symbols," this webcomic doesn't owe its huge readership to people being really interested in racial dynamics. People read TwoKinds because they like seeing furries in sexual poses with little or no clothing on. It's porn. Similarly, the creator draws children in sexy situations because it arouses certain readers. It's not because "it's manga," it's because it means that more money ends up in Tom Fischbach's pocket.

      Anyways, my review wasn't intended as a joke. The real "joke," though, is when people read porn comics and then feel like they need to defend themselves about it. I don't care if people get off to naked catgirls or whatever.

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    4. Here read this http://twokinds.keenspot.com/?p=about

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    5. I don't know about you but I was never turned on, I never drooled over naked animals and I never did anything else perverse during or after reading a section of the comic. Can you guess why? Because it isn't porn, it's that simple. just because an artists style depicts young LOOKING characters doesn't mean there 10 year olds hopped up on sex. The youngest charecter was 13, she was never depicted "naked" (naked by law is nipples and vagina showing, which if you look has never been on any page) she was put into a sexual theme however. She ~said~ that the slaver had told her to strip which he never did. She said that to get back at him for putting her in jail... kinda obvious to any 1st grade reader.

      I like the comic because every other page is something extremely funny to me and the author knows how to re-leave tension in his action seens by doing something humorous. I wont deny that there was a lot of random actions thrown into the comic, the plot isn't 100% normal by standards and neither are the actions of his characters. BUT that's the point there is very rarely a true action intense fight seen and when there is he alleviates that with comedic theme .

      You're probably right that very few people read it because it is suppose to depict racial tension in reallife, but most teens don't read "Huck Finn" because they like to see racial stereotypes in actual literature either.
      All I can do is send you here http://twokinds.keenspot.com/?p=about and tell you about the thousands of loyal readers of this amazing comedy that you unfortunately take for granted.

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    7. @Anonymous: I did.

      @Jacob B: It's a nipple-free porn webcomic that deserves the 2-star rating I gave it. And are you seriously trying to compare TwoKinds to Huckleberry Finn?

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  2. I took a peek at this out of morbid curiousity, and they don't look ANYTHING like children! They look like generic animes!

    This reminds me an awful lot of that sketch from the first season of Mad TV where this guy is looking at various paintings, and he keeps going "I find this offensive! Look at all these naked little boys!" even though there are clearly no naked little boys (the last one is just a nature scene and he's all like "It's a naked little boy parade!"), and at the end he goes "I'm just going to masturb- I mean, confiscate this art!".

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    1. That's a weak comparison because I've posted many reviews to this blog, and this is one of the very few that mention child pornography.

      Also, "it's anime" isn't a valid excuse.

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    2. Excuse me? Have you EVER even seen any real shoujo-style manga? Apparently not. I don't really care about you not liking twokinds, it's that you've pretty much offended every single manga fan and mangaka in the universe. Including me. And also, just because something is nude doesn't mean it's porn. No one thinks Greek statues are porn. Except maybe you. But then again, you might just have been raised in a fundamentalist household. Ha. Yee-ah. "You can't have fundamentalist without 'fun' and 'mental'!"

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    3. I don't care if my reviews offend people.

      And I like the bit about me being a fundamentalist. That's a new one.

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    4. Saying "its anime" kinda is a valid excuse. They're drawn like every other adult in anime is drawn. They don't look like kids at all.

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    5. No it isn't! Just because it uses the manga/anime style, dosen't excuse of them looking like kids. Have you never seen good Japanese art?

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    6. @iMonikah: It's creepy when nudity and sex are a big part of the story.

      @Ronin11111111: It might be cute or funny or silly or whatever in a normal manga, but in a porn comic, it's messed up.

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  3. I'm read TwoKinds since day one. And certainly, there is much to criticize. Mostly, that Fischbach's story telling ability isn't on a par with his art work.
    However, to cite the comic as being "child pornography", or porn at all, is as ridiculous as the out-of-context examples you provided.
    Fischbach's art style, by his own admission, is "anime". All his characters have big eyes and small mouths. That makes them neither children, nor child-like. And in the rare instance that any character is unclothed, they are covered in fur, and thus are not "naked". (At least, no more "naked" than a person wearing a furry leotard would be.)
    In the TwoKinds world, there are three anthropomorphic races. The Humans, like Trace. The Keidran, like Flora, Kat, and Natani, who are essentially intelligent, sentient animals. While the Basitin, like Keith and Maddie, are essentially humans, who happen to look like animals.
    Keidran, like domestic dogs or cats, rarely live longer than 20 years. Thus, as stated in the comic, a 12-14yo Keidran equates to very adult, middle-aged human.
    Basitin age like humans, and nowhere was the character of 13yo Maddie "sexualized", except perhaps in your own mind.
    Trashing a webcomic may be fun, but if you had any integrity, you'd have at least bothered to know what you were trashing, and level legitimate criticism.

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    1. The fur's the whole point of TwoKinds. It lets the creator post pages and pages of porn while having the convenient excuse that it technically sort of isn't porn because, technically, readers don't get to see any nipples or vaginas. Except that nobody cares about this excuse outside of a few of the comic's most dedicated readers who are set on defending TwoKinds as being a legitimate fantasy story. I'm also going to continue to be unconvinced that the Keidrans are actually adults until the creator starts drawing them like to look like adults. It should be too much to expect someone who's been drawing manga for 10-plus years to be able to do this.

      As for Maddie, the exact quote is, "He said something about paintings, and me taking off my clothes. And then he made weird hand gestures, like... this!" with the words "Grope! Grope!" next to her hands.

      Anyways, I know exactly what I was doing: trashing a bad furry porn webcomic that deserves to be trashed.

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    2. *shouldn't be too much to expect

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  4. I gave this comic a try since it was at the top of topwebcomics. I found this review because I was surprised at how popular this comic is. I mostly agree with this review. The fact that TwoKinds is furry porn was apparent pretty quickly. However, since the author is not explicit with his sex scenes, I was able to keep reading without immediately closing the comic in disgust. I consider it porn because so much of the story exists solely to create sexual situations - horribly. contrived. sexual situations - and draw the characters nude or in sexually suggestive manners.

    However, I disagree with this review in that I don't think the comic only appeals to people who find it sexually exciting or otherwise find the sexuality interesting. The story is childish, but it has a number of soap opera-like elements that appeal to a wider audience. To me, the story reads like an anime/twilight mashup, and while I would never defend either of those genre, both are widely popular for more than just their sexual appeal... Well, at least not their pornographic sexual appeal - sexual tension is a theme in both along with every sitcom or drama on the planet and half the fictional literature in the world.

    I also didn't get the pedophilia vibe from this comic. While reading it, I considered all of the sexualized characters to be adults. As for Maddie, the only time she is sexualized, the author uses a creepy character and treats the incident as indecent. Perhaps pedophilia was the author's intent, but if so, it was subtle enough that it didn't occur to me or bother me.

    Overall, I think this is a bad comic written by a talented artist. He shows promise though, and with a little better humor and much better writing, I think he could do a pretty decent slice-of-life comic.

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    1. TwoKinds is porn that furries masturbate to. There's no need to overcomplicate things by comparing it to sitcoms or whatever.

      As for the pedophilia, it's pretty clear: The characters are in sexual situations, they're younger than 18, and they look younger than 18. Maddie isn't sexualized, though; I was just pointing out Fischbach's hypocrisy.

      Anyways, it doesn't matter if Fischbach is talented or not, because he's shown that he's content making money from his trashy porn comic.

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    2. Lemme guess; you find deviantART to be pornographic as well? If it, or twokinds was porn, people younger than 18 would be unable to access it.
      And about a previous statement you made, you said you just want to understand its appeal. if you wanted to understand that, why do you flame every comment and reply that comes your way? You contradict yourself, leaving your credibility very questionable.

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    3. Quote me so that I can have an idea of what you're referring to. And I usually don't mention porn or sex in my reviews, so it's not like I'm accusing everything I read of being porn.

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    4. To Anonymous - yeah, a LOT of deviantart is porn. I should know, I am posting some of it. :) And unless you log in and set the adult filters, you won't be able to see that sort of stuff. You posted this in 2014, and DA wasn't created 2 years ago, so your post is a huge hypocrisy.

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  5. Natani is 13 in human years. So her age compared to her life span is completely diffrent from humans. Next its not bestiality that is human and animal. This is an imaginary race(furry). And as far as transgender goes she pretends to be a man so that she could be accepted as an assassin at a young age.

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  6. Natani is 13 in human years. So her age compared to her life span is completely diffrent from humans. Next its not bestiality that is human and animal. This is an imaginary race(furry). And as far as transgender goes she pretends to be a man so that she could be accepted as an assassin at a young age.

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    1. All that matters is one question: "Will readers jack off to [insert fetish] and give Fischbach their money?" If the answer's "yes," or at least "maybe," then it ends up in the webcomic.

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    2. Where does money enter into the equation? As far as I can see it's a completely free online series, sooo...?

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    3. Fischback has a Paypal tip jar, a CafePress store for merchandise, and he's done Kickstarter drive for print copies of the comic. He's also done commission drives in the past.

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    4. Libertycabbage. Why do you care so much that you feel a burning need to repeatedly answer questions in a stupid comments section over the course of almost a year now. Why do you think of twokinds so often that you keep replying to comments? Is twokinds your guilty pleasure? How is it possible that you are so deprived that can feel a porn vibe from twokinds? I personally as with many people do not really get that kind of feel. Why do you need to rant about twokinds??? Let it go man.

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    5. @Anonymous- He isn't really ranting though? Why shouldn't a creator of a website respond to conversations on his own website? That's kind of a weird thing to complain about. I get that you don't agree with what he's saying, and that's perfectly fine, but taking issue with him responding to people's comments on his content is really strange.

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    6. @Dak Ramsin: Fischbach's Kickstarter raised almost $200,000.

      @Roby Bang: His business skills are pretty impressive.

      @Anonymous: It's cool that people post comments on this blog. Keep 'em comin'.

      @Mitchell Bravo: Yeah, like, what the fuck?

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  7. Someone has there head up there ass

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    1. Yeah, you. Learn the English language before you try and defend shitty furry comics.

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  8. I started reading TwoKinds years ago, and I have to agree with you. I'm not into furry, but I'll admit the quality of the art is what initially drew me to read through everything. While the plot has never been extraordinary, I was lulled in by the passable Romeo-and-Juliet-esque concept, and the fairly unique universe. For a while the story moved along at a decent enough speed that fan-service, suggestive scenarios, and "not nude" nude scenes didn't bother me too much. Then when they left Kieth's homeland around chapter 13 or 14, everything came to a grinding halt. That is, everything this isn't furries in various states of nudity. Seriously, they've been on that ship(and in the woods) for over 200 pages and over 3 years of the comics life for less than a week of story time. You could easily sum up the important plot points there in about a paragraph, and most of those do little or nothing to advance the story or develop the characters. It's been so long i forget what the characters' goals are at and why they're even here at this point. So obviously they must just be furry eye-candy at this point.

    Personally, I don't think it's porn. However, "porn" is relative, so let's not pretend for a second people aren't wackin' it to this as porn. I've never thought of the characters as children. Although there's no denying most of them look extremely young, and could easy be seen as children if the reader chose.

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    1. A story is porn when the plot's less important than showing nudity and sex. As for pedophilia, the only reason it's ambiguous is because they're presented as animals. However, since they behave and talk like humans, breed with humans, and are embarrassed about being seen naked, I don't view them as being animals.

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  9. LibertyCabbage you made some nice points but the way in which you have responded to anyone not 100% agreeing with you (even the ones who 99% agree and very respectfully share the 1% they don't agree with) has really led me to believe you don't actually want to be taken seriously, you just want to be mad and make others mad so they can make you even more mad.

    Some people responding to you have made very interesting, excellent points on which you could elaborate (because your review shows you would have insights) but instead you decide to respond like a child stomping their feet going I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE WHATEVER YOU DON'T NEED TO LIKE ME.

    Your review is well written and insightful, whether I agree or not, and you have wonderful potential and you sell yourself short by seeing every point of possible criticism as an attack and making yourself look rather silly.

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    1. If you're unable to make a coherent argument, then you can try getting someone more eloquent to respond on your behalf.

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  10. I think Two kinds is just like kingdom hearts fandom. Nothing but ocs trying to relive the whole emo scene of anime.

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    1. Twokinds isn't emo, it's just badly written porn.

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    2. As opposed to that well written porn we read so much about.... Saying its badly written porn is like saying its an every day porn comic. Don't add fluff words and pretend there is actually well written porn to be read.

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  11. It is a common trick for pedophilia-catering works to make the "objects of desire" 1,000 year old goddesses to make people not feel guilty or to make deniability. The real measure of whether something is "pedophilia" or not should be how the characters act and talk, and **whether they understand and act maturely towards the ramifications of what they do**.

    Not every under-18 character in a sexual work should be classified as "pedophilia": School Days, a mainstream dating simulator, portrays girls in the 10th grade (Sekai and Kotonoha) dating and sleeping with the main character, a 10th grader. The girls are not portrayed as lolicon. I understand many western-based dating simulators are careful to make sure all of the girls are 18 and older (such as Katawa Shoujo) but Japanese dating sims have dateable characters under 18.

    Real people under 18 should not be sexualized in a work (there is a reason why high school movies cast actors in their 20s).

    Also a work portraying abusive high school student-teacher and parental incest relationships under 18 as material for sexual gratification may be harshly criticized, not due to "pedophilia" but due to the fact that one person has way too much power in the relationship. There is a reason why U.S. states raise the age of consent to 18 (from 16) in these power-abuse instances or outlaw them altogether.

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    1. My main complaint isn't that Fischbach draws underage furries, it's that the comic doesn't try to have any depth or entertainment value beyond being masturbation material. It's possible to make a sexy comic that has a decent story and interesting characters, but it's likely easier and more profitable to make mindless porn that caters to various fetishes.

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  13. I dunno man, I'm not a furry, I'm not a pedophile or someone who fetishizes transgenders, and I don't read any other furry comics, but TwoKinds has always stuck to me

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  15. From what I have already read in the comments, I can see arguing that art interpretation does not equal strictly child or childlike meaning onto the characters would result in a moot point that neither party will benefit from. However, I do wish to argue a point you have made. Yes, they are portrayed to be sentient enough to walk the realm of humanity, but let's take a step back and view this in perspective of two different cultures. First of all, the Keidran culture has been portrayed to handle the social stigma of sex far differently to any human or human-like civilization (whether or not you wish to dismiss this point as the writer finding a way around porn censors is your prerogative, not mine). Secondly, if we're comparing this fantasy world to real life human society, then I can date their mechanical technology to approximately the medieval period. During this time in real human history it was not only accepted but also expected for children to have sex as soon as they were interested (Most average human life spans in that period didn't go far beyond thirty). Lastly, let's apply our current real life laws to these fantasy species. (As I am from America, I will focus on American laws). As the story has stated, Keidran average life span is around 20 years of age. If Keidran waited for the law to dictate when they can legally have sex at the age of 18 (ignoring social acceptance of proper "sex age") then most Keidran would be dead, dying, or too infertile to breed. This would be counterintuitive to the survival of their species. Also, as the writer has brought up, would more than dampen any inter species relations.

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    1. It doesn't matter because Fischbach is a lousy writer who shouldn't be handling sensitive topics (e.g., sexuality) in the first place.

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  16. You really like force your opinions down people throats Cabbage.

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    1. Nope. I always try to provide an objective rationale for my views. I just don't have a lot of patience for dealing with Fischbach's whiny fanboys.

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  17. Natani is supposed to be 13!? He looks like 20 or something...

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    1. I had to keep checking the cast page to see what age the characters are supposed to be, which is really strange considering that Fischbach can draw so well. And it's not just a furry thing, as Trace could easily pass as a 12-year-old kid even though he's listed as being 24.

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  18. Honestly I can't believe the close-mindedness of this article. A guy starts a webcomic of his own volition as a basis for trying to talk about racial tensions and, as many writers and artists do, threw in some adult themes and comedy and suddenly it becomes perverted furry propaganda. I fail to see for reasons other than the fact that possibly you have a prejudice against the furry community that you would outright ignore the canon of the work and twist the themes to suit your side of the argument.

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  19. I found the website by chance, and was curious about it, i do find it interesting, i supose it's not easy to review all these things (yet, enjoyable?).
    I am a furry fan too, but i do enjoied reading your review, it's hard to find ppl actualy giving their opinion on the matter; in general i'm hating the fact that many seems to hate furries for no particular reason and usually have no argument if you ask them, anyway, i'm digressing.
    Now, i'm absolutely no expert on critique but it's usualy harsh and deal with even the littlest flaw in a perfect *insert film/book/whatever*. If we consider webcomics written by people which are hardly experts in writing (let's put drawing aside for now) it's not difficult to end up with this kind of review, beside, i don't see why seeing it as a personal attack (i'm refering TO whoever is reading it), it's still a PERSONAL review, Mr.Cabbage saw the webcomic this way, and most likely many ppl which aren't into furries would probably agree with his review, furry fan tend to be more indulgent on certain aspects, like for example, interracial relationship, light nude characters and such, it's a fact~
    The Porn: Well, i didn't see it as porn-centric comic but sure, there's porn in it, i'd like to remember to many that "porn" refer to the explicit depiction of sexual/erotic subjects, so it's very easy to fall into that category.
    Anime also tend to vice, JP one in particular, with their archetype of characters all rarely hitting 16-17 years of age yet passing trou the worst shit, sex and w/e they want to throw in it and get perceived as older (more or less, ofc we can't put everything into the same basket), but i think this usually lead us to say "yes, okay, it's understandable" to almost everything we see and we bring this mentality on webcomics too. Sure the "anime style" it's the author choice, still, if some ppl perceive the characters as "child" it's easy to see their behavior as pedophiliac, thus the choice style itself is the problem and the scarce informations and focus regarding their "age" (especially for young furry chars as Mr.Cabbage pointed out) do not help either.
    Well, this's just my 2 cents, not sure if i made a point or not, i hope so, in case i've wasted a lil of your time~
    Oh, may i point you to a comic called Endtown? Maybe you'll find it interesting, or i'll read it into a review of yours~ :P

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    1. Writing reviews is enjoyable for me because it's challenging. Doing it has helped me become a better writer and a more mature person.

      As far as being biased, I've trashed tons of webcomics in a bunch of different genres. Anyone who accuses me of picking on furries in particular doesn't know what they're talking about.

      Anime's a bad example because otakus have no problem distinguishing between anime and hentai.

      As for Endtown, it seems to be a popular webcomic, and I typically review the more obscure stuff.

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  20. As a furry artist myself, who draws a lot of porn... Twokinds never appealed to me. It is pseudo-porn, and he isn't the only one I see who ridiculously does not draw nipples on breasts or any vaginas but draws characters naked and in sexy poses. I kinda feel sad about such artists. They must have some deeply routed fear of sex and expressions of erotica in them... maybe an overly religious parent or strict teacher once found their adult drawings as a kid, who knows. To think Tom has been drawing this not-porn for years and never stepped through this phase? It shows he has some big mental issues.
    As for the age of the characters, not having read much of it, I can only say it's probably due to the weird anime influence. We all know that in anime, 14 year old girls have giant E-cup breasts, and all that weird shit the japanese are into. Yeah, just because I draw furry porn, does not mean I am into anything more than straight and legal age stuff. ;)

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    1. For the record, I have nothing against Fischbach. I see him as a clever businessman who put himself in a situation where he's able to draw comics for a living. Is someone who works a soul-sucking corporate job and stays up late at night drawing "real" comics a better person? In my opinion, no, they aren't. Fischbach has also never complained about my review, at least not to my knowledge.

      As for anime, I get the impression that otakus are more mature about it and treat "all that weird shit" as guilty pleasures. The attitude is, "I know it's trashy, but I like it anyways." With furries, it seems like they get into "fursecution" mode too quickly, where they're ready to pounce on anyone for being "anti-furry." To me, the idea that I care about what furries get off to or that I have some sort of anti-furry bias is hilariously absurd.

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    2. It's a weird thing with some furries (albeit sadly they are so vocal they seem like the majority) that they think "Hey, I am already an outcast because I am a furry, let's be open about my other weird fetishes as well." Hence why most people see furry art that apart from being, well, generic straight or gay furry art, also displaying tons of other fetishes such as vore, transformation, inflation, and then I was only mentioning the "milder" ones. It's mostly these that most people get riled up about, not seeing anthropomorphic animals in sexual situations - but furries immediately get defensive about it and assume any such attack is an attack on furries and furry art in general.

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    3. Does anyone really get "riled up" over furry porn, though? I know I personally can't recall ever seeing that happen. People mock it, sure, just like they do to anything they think sucks. But again, I don't see people as being generally all that interested in other people's fetishes beyond a sense of mild curiosity. I think part of the self-consciousness has to do with the idea that sexualizing childrens' entertainment is shameful and obscene. This leads to cognitive dissonance, where furries feel that they need to defend their innocence and antagonize their accusers. Granted, as you mentioned, the majority of furry fetishists are probably largely invisible on the Internet, or they stick to like-minded communities such as FurAffinity.

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    4. That's mostly it, as you say - you are not likely to see furry porn outside FA, or some on Deviantart (though they require censoring for the really adult stuff and ban a lot of the fetish material altogether). That's why most people well, would not expect to see it in a webcomic... with this "smart" censoring that Tom does.
      Btw, it just blew my mind when I read that him and Markiplier are brothers...
      As for the "sexualizing children's entertainment", partially true - but most furry art is far from cartoony or based on such characters. And there are those characters (Krystal, Minerva Mink, Rogue the Bat) who were created to look like anthro sex symbols to begin with.

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    5. You're wrong about the last part. Furries have been targeted at kids since forever, going back to Mickey Mouse and Looney Tunes. The three characters you referenced are from series targeted at kids, or at least originally targeted at kids. You can't deny that virtually all furry artists watched furry cartoons when they were growing up and were influenced by these cartoons. Sure, the furry art you're talking about is usually more realistic than cartoons, but comics and illustrations are generally going to be more realistic than animation.

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    6. Of course, we all started there at some point. But even if these series were targeted at kids, you can tell the characters were drawn to actually look sexy. For me, my first furry crush was Kit Mambo, the lioness marathon runner from Animalympics (the people who later did TRON and Lion King worked on that) and you can tell they did make the design sexy on purpose... then again that movie had quite a few jokes only adults would get.

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    7. If you want to, you can hold the animators responsible to an extent for trying too hard to appeal to both adults and children. However, if human characters were shown in the same way, it wouldn't be seen as embarrassing or shameful to crush on or even fantasize about them since these feelings are viewed as connected to normal adulthood, just in a premature way. Furries are too grounded in children's entertainment to comfortably make that transition, and there's always an underlying sense that furries are corrupting "innocent" content.

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    8. Yeah, I know what you mean. I take it you are familiar with the webcomic "Jack"? Part of what makes his stuff extra creepy is that he draws (too) adult scenarios happening to characters drawn in the style of Looney Tunes or Sonic the Hedgehog, who are, well, innocent and almost kid-like with their big heads and giant eyes.
      Frankly, I prefer drawing R34 of characters who are sexy without any alterations. Such as Elaine the werewolf, from Cybersix - an already rather adult cartoon (here are some screens): http://s189.photobucket.com/user/Swift_Nimblefoot/library/References/Elaine%20from%20Cybersix?sort=4&page=1

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    9. I'm somewhat familiar with Jack, and yeah, that might be the worst and most extreme example. But I should clarify again that I don't see corrupting or Rule 34'ing childish content in comics as being inherently problematic as long as the writing's good. The exceptions would be sexualizing children or rape, for example, but there's generally a lot of room for creativity. The TV show Robot Chicken's entire premise is corrupting children's entertainment.

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    10. Sure, as long as the writing is good it can be funny... I mean there is a Warhammer40K My Little Pony fandom with art and fanfics and such, mixing that grimdark universe with... ponies. And it can be hilarious.
      Robot Chicken started out well and had some good sketches, before descending into just taking some random obscure 80ies/90ies character and adding swear words and obscenity. I mean, that Skylanders sketch where the whole joke is that "Trap Master" refers to them being actually transsexual? Ugh.

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  21. I have been reading this comic from 17 years ago. The only reason I think this comic is populAr is because Markiplier is his brother.

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    1. Tom Fischbach deserves credit. He's an excellent artist, and he's been updating his comic regularly for how long? Not many creators can boast of this kind of consistency.

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  22. I've read this comic for like what 3 years? I'm very meh when it comes to judgment, if it's it's drawn at least comprehensively and has potential for a moderately half decent story I'll give it a chance. That being said I Do not expect the comic to reach its end. There are alot of characters and alot of back stories but there all bland and predictable. I feel like kieth and natani as characters are more interesting then trace and flora. The wrighter himself as said by everyone wants it to be pornish but then dosen't. Simply said make up your fricken mind. Another thing that hurts the comic is it's horrible wrighting. Ir reads like a fan fiction from some high schooler, it's has a few good ideas but it dosen't execute any of them. One such is the way slavery is viewed and represented in the story. It comes off as a non issue or a minor thing. All the characters seen in This slavery don't seem to care really about it, as if they enjoy having no free will. Trace is a relatable character but is boaring, he has the amnesia trop, and needless to say it's not done very well. Even now what 12 years and he is still boaring and two dimensional. The only time he's interesting is when he's drunk on power. Flora is a cast out, she was a say lave who didn't care about it but then ran away. Ya that's her story right there. No need to summaries. Overall the wrighter pens a decent world that's bright and colorful and yet filled with these dark themes that don't fit. He's unwilling to even consider picking a target audience and is way to brawn. His characters are there but there mostly unappealing, unrelatble and rather dull. The story has a interesting premise but is executed porly simply because he is a 1. A bad Wrighter in general and with multiple chances to prove this statement wrong he fails to do so. 2. He can't excute his story leading to it being u
    Uniteresting, 3 nothing is explained except with the Lord and behold outside the medium that is so popular today and yet we still barly can comprehend what's going on and lasty 4. He can't make up his mind about what he wants to do with the comic in general.

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    1. Dude, you keep saying "wrighting" and "wrighter"... where did you get that from? It's WRITING and WRITER. :D Were you thinking of the brothers Wright? :D

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    2. @Anonymous: What's complicated about "sex sells"? This comic makes Fischbach a ton of money, and it's not because readers are enthralled by the plot.

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  23. I'm not really interested in furry porn either, and the only reason I got into reading TwoKinds is because I've always wondered how it's always on the top 1 on a few webcomic sites' list (I will not give specific examples). When I first tried it a few years back, I dropped it immediately on the first look. I thought reading it would be a waste of time because art-wise, I didn't like it. However, after a few years, I changed my mind and started reading it just for the sake of having something interesting to read and so that I can find out WHY it's still number one, and so I put up with its personally awful art (at least in its earlier chapters). After skimming through these comments and re-examining what I've read, I agree that the comic is basically masturbation material, at least for the most part. HOWEVER, I did not start reading this for masturbation material since I'm not even a furry. I just really like reading good stories and I have fun in discovering a wide field of entertainment media, to be honest, and to much of my embarrassment, I've watched anime, K-drama, live-action stuff, read webcomics, webtoons, manga, manhua, manhwa, etc., though not enough of every category; I;ve just practically scratched their surfaces, but for now, excuse me for my wrong grammar, and don't attack me for technicalities ok? I wouldn't mind some corrections actually - it would be very helpful. xD

    Back to what I was trying to say, I like discovering good stories - those which I can acquire something valuable from, whether it may be moral values, practical knowledge, or something to kill time with over a lazy weekend. Now, you may attack me by thinking that I am implying that TwoKinds is some kind of.... insightful literature material, which in fact, is not, but honestly, HAD and still HAS the potential to be.

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  24. When I started reading it, the cover page at the top with all of the characters hooked me in because I thought that if the art is gonna be this good in the future, then I wouldn't mind going through with the story's journey. I admit the fact that it is mostly looks like, and probably is pseudo-porn for furries, and I became disappointed with it because of that, because if this is really just masturbation all the way, then it would really be a waste of time to read. The comic did say that Keidrans had a relatively short lifespan compared to humans and Basitins, therefore justifying their lewdness and cray-hormone drives are like that. To be honest Mr./Ms./Mrs. Cabbage, not just you, but even the characters in the comic are uncomfortable with the Keidrans' nature, and I see why even with that justification the comic would still look wrong to most people because they would think that the author is just using it as an excuse to draw sexual scenes, but still, not the point I want to dwell on. On a related note, their designs are cute and attractive, not just in the sexual aspect, and I like it for THAT.

    When it comes to its humor, the sexual content in it can be toned down a bit. One example is when Flora jumps Trace. I mean, is it really necessary to make a dozen carbon copies of that scene? Well, at first it was funny; now, it's just bland and repetitive. He could try changing things up a bit. As for other comedic aspects, I like it, not really great, but still makes for a good giggle at times.

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  25. Now, let us skip characterization and other stuff and return to the plot part, not the "plot" others might think about, but it's actual plot. Well, I have probably the same opinion as the last one above me who wrote that TwoKinds has many themes and a good built-up world, but it JUST DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IT IS YET. Sometimes its comedic, then tragic, and romantic. It has a lot of potential for its story, and a great world set up for it that it is unfortunately and ultimately wasted because the author probably focuses more on eye candy and varieties of fanservice to hook in its audience. As for me, I was never hooked by its sexual themes, but I actually spoiled myself on its characters in the wiki just so I can immediately know if I would be interested in knowing their stories or not. In the end, I became really interested in one character - which is KEITH KEISER. Probably my only motivation to tolerate everything else in the comic was just so I could learn about his story, and imho, it was quite worth it.

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  26. SPOILERS AHEAD>>>>>>
    Comparing Keith's story to Trace's and Flora's, his is really one of the interesting ones. He was weak as a child and was discouraged by his mother to join the Basitins' Spartan-like military force, but on the other hand, because of that, everyone else including his father looked down on him. Keith then found that his father murdered her mother, then, since his father was so drunk and exhausted, he fainted and fell onto the spear Keith was holding, therefore Keith ended up indirectly killing his own father. If that wasn't bad enough, Keith is then held responsible for his parents' deaths and was then exiled from the Basitin island unless he brings back the Grand Templar - Trace - and don't get me started with his whole romantic troubles deal. AND IF EVEN THAT WASN'T enough, there's actually more to this story than meets the eye, which you find more about in the later chapters. Then there's redemption, betrayal, slightly more engaging romance, tragedy, uncovered mysteries, more betrayal, grieving, etc. Keith and Natani, personally, are more interesting SO FAR and more fleshed-out as characters than Trace and Flora, blah, blah, blah, rant, rant, rant, and etc. Trace is your generic goody two-shoes shounen whose only more interesting characteristic is that tragic loss is his dead wife who was killed by random Keidrans caused him to be a power-hungry megalomaniac (yeah, that's probably a double positive) and now he has to deal with these conflicting personas and decide what he wants to be in the future. Flora is a Keidran who has gone through a relatively peaceful life as a slave, but was still traumatied by it and is now trying to deal with it. Then there's 'the neutral' who says that Trace and Flora will bring about balance to the world in the future, blah, blah, blah.

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  27. Well, in conclusion from my unorganized arguments, Tom Fishbach (Did I get that right?) has constructed a comic of pseudo-porn with the aim of attracting a variety of readers and probably that moh-nay (money), in which he succeeded in, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, he has also already constructed a great world full of potential for adventure/romance/war/basically something like Fate series in comic/furry form, and aside from the sexy and perverted stuff and other things that have been mentioned in this thread, there's a lot of other stuff going on aside from masturbation material, pedophilia, slavery not as a fetish but as a moral issue, trans-whatever, feelsfests, racism, world peace, understanding of others, probably even Avatar-esque stuff because of the possibilities, and even more story that could endear probably anyone. The only unfortunate thing though, LibertyCabbage, it not that it only advertises the sexy stuff, but I'm not necessarily defending the author for his preferences either, but I'm sure that even you can agree with me that although this comic has A LOT of stuff that is wrong with it, it also has SO ~ SO MUCH POTENTIAL to ACHIEVE something.... MORE from what it is now, and that is something everyone would want to see. :D

    For the furries, I'm trying to say something like I want this comic to be:
    "Come for the eye candy, but STAY FOR THE STORY".

    Thoughts? Anyone?

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  28. P.S

    I want a friendly debate, not a comment war, and sorry for the long-ass, not very well organized comment, but I do hope that you are able to understand what I want to convey. Thank you for reading this far just in case, and have a good day.

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    1. Response here: http://www.webcomicpolice.com/2017/04/april-17-q-longest-comment-ever.html

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  29. New Anonymous guy...

    After reading this entire review and all the comments, I really have to say...does it really matter? I find the whole comic to be genuinely humorous, warm, and cute personally. The art style evolved pretty drastically in the 3-days I spent bingeing on the comic. It's pretty crazy to cover 13-years of a guy's artistic work in three days, but I thought it was and still is an amazing story. Even if the storytelling is absolutely ridiculous, that's kind of the point, isn't it? It was started by a teenager who grew up with the comic over time. Even if you think it's porn (which I really don't agree with either...) why waste so much time being bitter about someone who became successful from their artistic journey? So what if the humor is sexual? It's a web-comic, dude, and it's hilarious.

    Most people who read the web comic probably enjoy it because it's just genuinely fun, and the work that Tom Fischbach put into it really shows a genuine love for what he created. I'm pretty sure neither he nor 99.99% of the world population gives two shits about the misgivings of hate-mail on a site calling itself "Web Comic Police."

    That name in itself is pretty laughable.

    Just chill out and learn to live with it. It's a comic...it doesn't matter.

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  30. Why not just ask me if I'm bitter? You don't know me.

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